Episode 15

Arabic in Jordan

Hello and welcome to the Comprehensible Australian Podcast. My name's Josh and I'm your host. Before we start today's episode, please remember to like and subscribe to me. I have Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, YouTube, Instagram and TikTok. So I've got a lot. I also have a new website on a new domain name. The domain name is Comprehensible Australian, so my website is www.comprehensibleaustralian.com.au­­­­­­

So it's really exciting to have my own domain and not the *Canva domain. So yeah. Okay. Okay. So if you're watching the video podcast, you probably can see I'm not by myself today. I have a very special guest. This is Spencer. Spencer has been my friend for a very long time. He's also an ESL teacher.

Alright, so Spencer, please introduce yourself to our audience. Hi everyone. I'm Spencer. I teach English as a secondary language here in Melbourne and I've taught in Turkey as well and I will be going to Jordan next week to teach English, hopefully. So I really that's, that's my whole life basically, traveling and speaking English in different contexts, teaching English sometimes. And let's not forget to mention that you're also doing a master's thesis. I am. It's very difficult. I just submitted the final draft last night. Well done. I'm done at 4 a.m., so I'm a bit tired. Yeah. Yes. He's so tired that he came one hour late to our recording. Exactly. So one hour late, but that's okay. You're here and we're recording. So really exciting. Okay, so let's get started with today's podcast.

So tell me, why are you going to Jordan? That's an interesting country to go to. Yeah, well, I've always been interested in the Middle East. I've spent quite a lot of time there. I've travelled to almost every country in the region except Yemen and Algeria, because you simply can't get visas. Is that right? Yes. Remarkably, it's actually difficult for Australians to get visas to some places.

Yeah. Okay. And what are you going to do in Jordan? Are you going to teach in Jordan? I'm planning on doing a few things. I'm hoping to teach English there and as well as studying Arabic. And I've never learned a full language right through. So it's quite a unique experience for me, I think. But I am … I do understand a lot about the Arabic context.

As you as I suggested before, I've travelled quite a lot there. I've travelled to almost all the countries. And I actually lived in Turkey as well for about six months, and that was a very good experience. So why did you decide to move to Turkey and live in Turkey? I was wanting to see what it was like to actually live somewhere outside of Australia because I've travelled and backpacked a lot but never settled down somewhere.

So it's. So I was wanting to challenge myself in that way. And I thought Turkey was in a prime location being in the middle of Europe and Asia, and it has some European influence, Asian influence and of course influence from the culture of the Middle East. Yeah, it really is the crossroads between Asia and … Tt is exactly. And the history is fantastic.

I, my degrees in anthropology, studying cultures. So being there, it, it made my brain become alive. And I was always alert to seeing the cultural intricacies that come with a place that is situated with such a historical backdrop, I guess. All right, so let's go back to Arabic. What got you interested in learning Arabic? Well, it didn't start off from interest, per se.

It just kind of fell onto me as I was going through those, those areas of the world. I began to pick up some Arabic, and and the people there are quite kind. They would always compliment me when I tried speaking Arabic, and I do get very nervous speaking another language and I get very shy. But having the compliments from those around me whenever I just say a few words was really encouraging and also just being immersed in the culture fully allowed me to see how the language plays out.

I was able to see people speak Arabic in different situations, different contexts, and it just grew my interest and I thought it was a very beautiful language. It's quite, perhaps to the English speaking ear, it might sound a bit hard and aggressive because of the throat sounds. Sometimes they call them guttural, yes, guttural sounds and people also call German guttural.

Yes, exactly. But, with Arabic, actually there are many layers of that. So for example, “H”. There are about four or five sounds for “H”. And so just, just hearing that variation of sound was very interesting for me. And it, and it inspired me to want to learn how to speak more of it. It sounds like it really blew your English brain.

It did well, English. I now consider English quite boring compared to Arabic. So yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. So do you think that your experiences. Yeah, those experiences that you had in the Middle East with contact with the Arabic language, do you think that made you a better English teacher or shaped some of your experiences as an English teacher in Australia?

Definitely. So when I started teaching English, which was in Turkey, I would always reference back and compare English to Arabic. Thankfully, most of my students were Arab, actually, although they were in Turkey. and I in general, I'm someone who loves context. That's why I travel. I want to see places and people within the context where they were born, what they're surrounded by.

And so being able to put language in context was very, very important for me. And still, as I'm teaching my classes now, students, they find it a lot more interesting when they see the relevance of English in relation to other things, other languages, other contexts, and also real life, because I'm speaking from my real life experiences, the stories I have of hearing others speak English, inspiring stories actually.

One example, was in Iran, where I met a lot of people who spoke English and but not many of them had met native English speakers. For example, one guy spoke perfect English, grammatically perfect. I went to his house and he had all the rules drawn up on the wall and he had never spoken English to a native speaker.

And I mean, it's really quite humbling. It was very humbling. I think Spencer and I can admit that sometimes non-native speakers can speak better English than us. Definitely, and I think that's definitely the case throughout Australia. The people, especially in the Middle East and in Europe as well in other areas, those who speak English as a secondary language often speak it a lot better than natives

I've met. and as I said before, that was certainly the case in Iran and in the Middle East, where sometimes the odds are against people. We say this phrase, odds are against people. I mean that, there were, there were things hindering them from learning English, but still they did it. They would watch YouTube videos, they would watch movies, they would do everything they could to learn this other language without even participating in formal classes.

So you say the odds are against them. What disadvantages are these people facing? Well, in terms of language learning, it's just a lot of it is simply lack of native English speakers. A lot of English teachers will travel to countries where they can get a high income, a high salary for their work, but they would rarely go to a Middle-Eastern country where that's where the situation is a bit more tense.

And volatile or politically unstable. Sometimes the visas are hard to access, so the opportunity for them to interact in real life with a native speaker is very, very rare. So they must rely on technology, on Google, on books to access English. I think that's not to say that non-native English speakers are worse English teachers than native English speakers. Like in my experience, I've met so many non-native English speakers who are absolutely excellent English teachers and they have really valuable experience because they actually have the experience of learning the language as a second language.

We don't have that experience. Exactly! When I started off as a teacher, I had to learn the rules from scratch and I'm great with giving examples, but finding the intricate rules as to why one grammar principal is like this and not that, I have no idea. I have to think of it on the spot or research and then present that with my students.

And I often ask non-native English speakers who teach English for their advice when I'm teaching. Yeah. That is a disadvantage of being a native English teacher, speaker, English teacher. Exactly. We are all disadvantaged in some ways. Not equally, though. Yes. Controversial, I suppose. Yes, we it is a privilege for us to be native English speakers because we tend to have more power in our interactions.

And as I suggested before, people, they value the speech of native speakers and I'm not sure why that is. That would be something interesting to learn more about, why people value a native speaker than someone who's learned it. Because once someone who has learned it is at a native stage of learning, once they speak it fluently, they are, as we've already said, they are just as good as a native speaker whose first language is English, like…If not better, because they have that that experience of struggling and learning.

Exactly. And we didn't struggl. Exactly. Right. So when are you going to Jordan? I'm leaving next week. In exactly one week. This time next week I will be on an aeroplane and I'm going to miss you. Thank you, Joshua. I'll miss you, too. I'll miss Australia in general. So what? What do you think you're going to miss about Australia, then?

Well, definitely. I will miss Sushi. really? Yes. Because in the Middle East, whilst they have a great variety of foods, they don't have much Asian influence. And what I love about Australia is the cultural infusion here of different foods. In Melbourne, you can be in an Indian restaurant and next door is a Japanese restaurant, next door is Hungry Jacks. You have all this variety of foods that it's not so common in the Middle East or even Europe.

It was hard, in Europe, it was difficult for me to find Japanese food. So I've been making the most of it this week by eating a lot of sushi. Okay, so that's why we're eating sushi when you were coming here. Exactly. Exactly. That was why I was six. And it makes sense now. You were late because of sushi.

That makes sense. Okay, so I forgive you. I think it's it's another part of Australia that I will miss. And I think you're absolutely you're absolutely right. Melbourne seems to be this big melting pot of different cuisines. You can find Colombian cuisine, Brazilian cuisine, Chinese cuisine, Japanese cuisine, almost every single country's cuisine. In Melbourne, if you look hard enough, so, we're really quite lucky to live in this melting pot of different cuisines.

Definitely. All right. So I wish you good luck, Spencer, and good luck with your travels and learning Arabic. Arabic, I believe, to be a hard language. Yes, I tried when I was younger. And did you? I failed! Joshua. I gave up. I didn't get very far. Well, maybe you could come and learn it as well. Yes. Study it with me and Jordan.

I'd love to. That sounds like a once in a lifetime… it's not really a once in a lifetime opportunity, because I could do it, but I don't have that sense of adventure that you do. Thank you. I will take that as a compliment. So speaking about migration and the experience of migration, you're going to Jordan soon. Why did you choose Jordan?

I had travelled to most of the countries in the Middle East, and ironically, I traveled to Jordan is one of the last ones. So you have been to Jordan. I have been to Jordan. And I just… it would be cliche to say I fell in love with is, but its position geographically is perfect, especially in regards to culture and the Arabic language as well.

It sits near the Gulf, so next to Saudi Arabia and Oman, where Khaleeji, the traditional Arabic, if you like, originates from. So that means that it has more influence from there. It sits, it sits near that. Therefore, the language that has more of those harsh sounds from the throat, from the Gulf region, they … those sounds are still used in Jordanian Arabic or in the dialect of Jordanian Arabic, but you do not hear those sounds from the Gulf as much as you spread further away.

So to Lebanon, you don't hear it as much. At the same time, on the other side of Jordan, you have Syria. Syria, I find it's a very poetic expression of Arabic, and it's the most beautiful one in my opinion. Jordan is next to Syria. At the same time, Egyptian Arabic, that dialect is a bit like the equivalent of American English to English, where it's more spread worldwide through media, through news, through movies, music.

So, yes, I think I'm aware about the prevalence of Egyptian soap operas. Oh yes, they are very famous, known for their drama. Especially in Turkey. I think they're very popular in Turkey. Yes, exactly. But Turkey has their own expression of soap operas. But that's a whole other conversation. Okay. I'm exhausted just thinking about the drama involved with Middle Eastern soap operas.

But yeah, Jordan sits in the middle of or at the crossroads of Egypt, the Gulf, Syria. It's near Lebanon. It's next to Palestine and Israel as well. So as well as Iraq. So because it sits in that position, it gets linguistic influence from all those dialects of Arabic. Therefore, by going to Jordan to learn Arabic, I hope that I can communicate more easily with other Arab speakers, no matter where they originate from.

So I am a little bit interested. You're talking about Jordanian, Arabic and this is a hard word to say to the arid peculiarities and features of Jordanian Arabic, but I'm aware that there is a standardized form of Arabic MSA, Modern Standard Arabic, and that tends to be taught in courses, correct? Because it's, I suppose it's easier to teach.

There's a lot of resources for it. Is the course that you're taking not in Modern Standard Arabic. It is in modern standard Arabic. But I must caution you and your listeners or watchers as well, if you go to anywhere in the Middle East and say I speak modern standard Arabic, the first response will be no one will understand you, or that's not applicable, or it's not relevant because it's …

In Arabic, there are many dialects and colloquialisms that are used. And so with Modern Standard Arabic, Modern Standard Arabic will give you a broad perspective of Arabic, and you'll be able to say general things that most Arabic speakers will understand. But when it gets to just normal, everyday conversations on the street, it's not too applicable, which is why I've also signed up for the colloquial Jordanian Arabic course.

That's really exciting. Exactly. So it will be 3 hours of modern standard Arabic a day and it will be an extra 2 hours of colloquial Arabic. And the reason why I want to learn colloquial Arabic is for the reasons why I said before, and Jordanian is best placed for that in my opinion. And so 5 hours of classes a day, that's some more than typical English students,

English language students would study in Australia. Exactly. They're going to be really tired. Definitely. It's going to be a very different environment to university that I've been in for the past five years, where we just have a lecture, a class for one or 2 hours. The last time I was stuck in a classroom for 5 hours was school and I'm not looking forward to that, but I am motivated to learn the language, so hopefully my motivation keeps me going.

Yeah, so it sounds like you have really strong intrinsic motivation rather than extrinsic motivation. You're not doing it for work, you're just doing it out of love and interest, curiosity, affinity. Yes, yes. He loves showing off his vocabulary, which is perfect for this podcast because it will broaden your mind into the wonders of English. I don't … I don't really show off my vocabulary too much on this podcast, but maybe I do.

Maybe it's like a Christmas gift for your listeners. Yes. Yes. Bonus vocabulary from Joshua. All right. I think now is a good time to conclude our podcast. Let's wrap it up. Let’s do it. So this was Spencer and this is the Comprehensible Australian podcast. Thank you for listening or watching us today and we'll see you next time. Before we leave, please remember to subscribe to me on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Instagram and TikTok.

All right, I'll see you next time. Bye!